Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. Fig. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? For more information, please see our That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. Similar occurences? The P-mags always functioned. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Mick 1 month later. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. Checking mine now! Pics to follow. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. Your link has been automatically embedded. Guide to modifying .308 Gen3 P-Mags to work in DPMS G2 When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. These two pics right here, and the height difference. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. What measurements do you have on your lower? I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever so slightly and drag on the bolt lugs, which results in significant damage over time. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). Display as a link instead, Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). PMAG "bolt catch interference" Issue with LMT MWS .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Why I Don't Use PMAGs The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. You are using an out of date browser. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. Pmag VS Hexmag 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. View attachment 25288. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. PMAG problems - Midwest PX - New Jersey Gun Forums I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. PSA PA-10 Magazines, quick question. | Sniper's Hide Forum I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. Upload or insert images from URL. :??? I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . PMAG bolt lockback fix | Springfield XD Forum I deepened the hole to 0.480. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. Ar10 bolt jamming up on PMag/mag release | Northwest Firearms Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. I'd delete it if I could. Just did this, no difference. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. Has anyone seen this? New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Could the magazine be too low? The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. Another P-Mag bolt catch issue? - AR15.COM I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. So far so good. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Magpul PMag issues I deepened the hole to 0.480. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. I don't and I didn't . honest. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. Suggestions? The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. TSiWRX. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved!* However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. My Pmag20 wont last round bolt hold open and fails to feed 10% of the It did. Getting the Magpul PMAG to work with regular bolt catch It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. How is it though that my. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. This is. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. You are using an out of date browser. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. TFB Review: Over 1,000 Rounds With The Springfield Hellion But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. That one issue, right there, because in the previous pics, that bolt catch isn't sticking up enough to reliably get that bolt face every time. magpul pmag milspec bolt catch problem : r/ar15 Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. They all functioned fine. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. It was initially 0.323 deep. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Support - AR MAGLOCK - Fixed Magazine Lock & Release Kit What corresponding dimensions do you have? As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. Coil bind on the spring? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. That should tell you what's going on. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. We have heard reports these malfunctions often happened with Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear ammo. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. and might have several still in the packaging. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. Hey, everyone. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. A new one can be sent upon request. Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. JavaScript is disabled. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. JavaScript is disabled. Paste as plain text instead, The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. I'll have to get measurements later. Professional. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. Some rifles are just finicky. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. #5. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . All Rights Reserved. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. Next up is damage to the SCAR. Check all your mags, especially PMAGS, but check all mags!! Here's a photo showing the mags. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. You can post now and register later. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. JavaScript is disabled. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. Pmag Problem | Northeastshooters.com Forums The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? It was initially 0.323 deep. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. Pmags have worked fine in the past. Think it could be magazine springs? Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. How To Fix AR-15 Bolt Catch Lock Failure for PMAG's Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. "And here remain with your uncertainty! Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. 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